In my weekend recap last week, a couple of people commented on all the things Phil does around the house - namely the grocery shopping and cleaning. I think we are probably outliers on our division of labor. I don't know of many couples whose husbands clean and grocery shop. So how did we arrive at this division of labor? It was a process!
Grocery shopping: prior to having children, I did all the meal planning, grocery shopping, and cooking. I didn't mind this, but I did get fatigued by the meal planning. For awhile I tried some meal delivery services like Hello Fresh but Phil wasn't thrilled with the meals and my gluten intolerance really limited our choices. So the first step in sharing the work of getting food on the table was having Phil help with meal planning.
Then we had Paul in March of 2018. I kept doing the grocery shopping during my maternity leave, but as I approached my return to work, I knew I'd rather spend the 60-90 minutes I'd spend shopping at home with Paul. So initially, we tried outsourcing grocery shopping to Instacart. I was fine with the service but Phil didn't like it because I think you couldn't use coupons or take advantage of some sale items and sometimes he didn't like the produce they selected. He said he could do the grocery shopping "sometimes." My response was - you either need to do it every week or we use Instacart. He opted to take on grocery shopping.
So now we come up with meal plans together, we both add items to our shared apple note grocery list, he grocery shops, and I make nearly all of the meals. Given his frugal nature, he's actually better suited to grocery shop as he pays more attention to prices and knows where it's more economical to buy various things. He gets as much as he can at Aldi, then goes to our big box grocery store, Cub, and sometimes stops at Target for a few things.
Flash forward to now and I kind of think he has the better end of the deal now that we have 2 kids. I actually think grocery shopping alone doesn't sound all that bad compared to my Saturday morning which includes taking the kids to the library and gymnastics, especially since gymnastics features manhandling a squirrelly toddler parent involvement. But when Will grows out of the toddler stage, our Saturday mornings might be about even in terms of how challenging/tiring they are.
Cleaning: prior to having children, I cleaned the bathrooms and kitchen and he vacuumed and dusted. Before I lived with Phil, I had cleaners come every other week but I knew he wasn't on board with that expense when I moved in with him. Then in summer 2019 during our house hunting, we were having a really hard time finding a house he was willing to buy (he was even more picky than I was and we had been house hunting for almost 2 freaking years at that point) and he agreed to hire cleaners to kind of offset some of the tension around house hunting. During covid, as we approached my due date in fall 2020, we put our cleaning service on pause to limit the people coming in and out of our house and Phil and I shared cleaning duties. I figured we'd rehire them when I was vaccinated and returned to work. But Phil really liked not having the house cleaning expense. I felt the expense was worth it especially since they got our house cleaner than either of us could! I explained that I felt my time was worth more than what we paid for house cleaners, and our free time is so limited. I do not want to spend nap time scrubbing toilets or cleaning the stove. So since he felt so strongly about not re-hiring the cleaners, he agreed to take on the cleaning.
It hasn't been a perfect solution because our house is not as clean as it was. We both tidy up the house and I do sometimes help with things, like cleaning the kitchen. He fits the cleaning in on quiet periods on Fridays when he works from home or while I'm out and about with the boys. It's working fine enough but I keep hoping he'll tire of cleaning and agree to re-hire cleaners.
***
This negotiation approach might not work for many and it probably comes off as 'cut throat' since I've stood my ground on not being willing to do things we can outsource. And yes, he takes on things many husbands/fathers don't, but I still do plenty of things like scheduling doctor/dentist appointments, taking the kids to those appointments, washing our cloth diapers, keeping track of what clothes the boys have/what they need, and selling/donating things the boys grow out of. I'm also the primary contact for daycare and tend to stay home with the kids when they are sick since I have colleagues at work who can cover for me when I'm out. I think our division of labor is as close to even as we can get, especially now that we are out of the baby stage - close to even wasn't possible when I was pumping or nursing!
I am fortunate to be married to a person who sees me and treats me as his equal. But that's what I was looking for in a partner. We are also very left-brained, logical, less-emotional people (in the Myers Briggs classification, we are both hard-core "thinkers," not "feelers") so our negotiations about division of labor has never been contentious or emotional.
But the way to go about these kind of negotiations are so specific to the marriage and the personalities and interests of the couple so it's really a "you do you" kind of situation, but maybe it's helpful/interesting for others to see how we got to where we are at!
15 comments:
Appreciate your explanation but I don't think anyone should have to justify why their partner chips in to do household chores! I'm assuming the comments came from women who are frustrated their husbands don't do domestic chores. My husband does a lot around the house with the kids due to just like you, negotiation and me standing up for what I need. Unfortunately many don't and then resent their husbands. So cheers to you, Lisa! But I hope those comments didn't make you feel badly that you are not the one grocery shopping or cleaning the house... And I really hope they didn't make you feel like your husband is that great/special due to his willingness to do these chores! He's doing his part, and I'm sure you're still doing way more!
I * LOVED * reading this. It is so fascinating to learn about how other families work. I do not think you sound cut-throat at all, I think it sounds like you and Phil have a really good method of discussion and prioritization that has worked out really well. I complain about the meal planning and cooking (because I do 95% of both), but really I wouldn't love it if my husband took it over. There are definitely some things that I wish felt more balanced though -- for one thing, I do ALL of the extra-curricular. I think originally this began out of necessity, since my husband was at work when my daughter's ballet class or whatever took place. But it has morphed into me doing all of it and I'm really feeling the imbalance this year, since I have five days of activities to attend while my husband comes home and gets to work out and then relax. But the thing is, I think in REALITY, things are probably more balanced than they feel, if that makes sense? Like if you were to allot a point value to each responsibility/task, then we would have fairly even scores. Mainly because he works outside the home and is the breadwinner of our family (my income is vanishingly small compared to his). Sometimes I wonder if I would it differently if I could go back.
I think you recommended The Family Firm to me and I am loving it, and wondering if there is any way I can persuade my family to "re-negotiate" some of the major things in our lives.
Anyway, this is all to say this is so fascinating. And I hope Phil gives up on cleaning at some point because it is so nice to have a cleaner!
I love glimpses into how different families do things. It seems like you two have had honest discussions about the division of labor and your arrangement works for you. I'm curious about how often you revisit the discussion? I mean, is your desire for a cleaner house outweighing Phil's desire to save money at this point and maybe you should reconsider rehiring cleaners or is it something you don't really have set times to talk about?
@ NGS - we do revisit in fairly often. What usually happens is I will comment on the fact that the house isn't as clean as I'd like and he'll make sure to do some cleaning in the next day or so. And I continue to teasingly ask him if he's tired of cleaning yet and is ready to re-hire cleaners.
Thanks for sharing this, Lisa! I really enjoy how other people's lives "work" and this sounds like it works great for you! I don't work full-time so the lion's share of house and groceries fall to me. My husband used to do all the cooking, way back when we were first married. That changed when I was home on maternity leave. Now it's very rare that he cooks, other than bbq which I do not count because I do all the other dishes that go with bbq. I also do the vast majority of the cleaning. However, he does so much stuff around the house that I don't often pay attention to, that I would probably hire out. I guess we have just come to a nice division of labour. I would say he does the after dinner cleanup a few times a week when he hasn't worked too late, and the boys often do that too. It's all a process! I have to admit I am a bit more picky when it comes to a clean house than he is, so I clean more than maybe "normal."
Oh! And I am not ignoring you re: the Thai quinoa salad. I'm still looking for the link! I had printed the page off long ago when Suzanne posted it so I think I'll take a photo of the recipe and just email it to you. That's probably easier than the wild goose chase I'm on.
This is interesting (and probably one reason why Rick and I don't live together!). My friend Kate and her husband alternate cooking -- one week her, the next him and they are resposible that week for their shopping and kitchen clean-up. I need to hire a cleaner -- I'm very bad at that -- it can look neat but don't get close to the baseboards and the floors get a mess! Rick's not neat at all but when he cleans, it's insane -- you can eat off the floor!
I love posts like this!
Our division of labour has changed over the years. When he was on the road 50% of the time, I felt like I had to do EVERYTHING all the time. It was very hard to settle into a routine of, say, who put out the garbage on Fridays because he was often...not home on Fridays. I did all the extracurriculars. All the household stuff. I dealt with contractors and paid bills and did laundry.
When he worked from home over COVID this got better, but his hours were still so long I felt like I needed to at least mentally be on to of everything.
He does a lot of general tidying, but I do all the deep cleaning (toilets, dusting, moping). He was very pro hiring a cleaning service and we had someone come every 2 weeks for about 18 months. I actually found it to be stressful eventually; it meant I had to organize the house, have things picked up etc so the cleaner could be efficient (or else pay extra money to have them do all the chair lifting etc). I know our house isn't as clean as it used to be, but that's fine with me and I'd rather put that money somewhere else...but I think he'd like to have a cleaner again!
While he was on sabbatical he did most of the lunchbox prep which was AMAZING. I was so tired of making lunchboxes. He also started cooking a lot of the meals and doing lots of laundry etc while I focussed more on work tasks during the day.
I'm trying to think what we clearly divide up at this point? We mostly tag-team different things so no one person always does X. Sometimes he takes the car to the shop, sometimes I do. Sometimes he makes supper, sometimes I do. I always schedule dentist appointments, but he might be the one to take a child, depending on his schedule. I think we got used to the unpredictability of his travel schedule and so we haven't formally settled into a routine of who does what. For now, at least, this seems to work quite well for us!
I think it's wonderful that you guys have such a great division of labor! That's really how it should be. I think so many times women end up taking on more things because certain things just bother them more than they bother men, for some reason?? Like I swear my husband doesn't even see a messy game closet- but every time I open it, it bothers me, for example. He doesn't even seem to notice it.
I also think it's really easy for certain things to kind of sliiiiide into the mom's lap- like the school contact info, or responding on team chats about game attendance, etc. Sometimes I think it's a case where since I filled out the form, my email address gets listed, and then all this stuff comes to me, and then pretty soon, my husband has no idea what is going on and I end up managing all of it. Then again, there are some times that we are BOTH on there- but he has "gotten used to" me managing that area, so he kind of tunes it out. (I also would not be able to just "tune it out" as well. I know I would be like, double checking or monitoring certain things...).
For us, we have certain areas that are a hard divide- like I never do them. Mostly that is cleaning our master bathroom (husband does) and he does ALL the laundry. Also, I pretty much never cut the grass. He handles almost all of the kids' clothing needs. Grocery shopping and cooking has morphed into mostly my domain, again because of my husband's schedule- it's more of a practicality thing. He's just literally not here until too late. But I do think he often just doesn't even think about it/ give any thought to what we are going to eat. In his defense, he has said repeatedly that if there is no dinner made when he gets home, he has no problem making himself a quesadilla or just eating a bowl of cereal if needed! ha. So it's not like he pressures me or "expects" dinner on the table, either.
I do most of the main area cleaning (kitchen/sunroom/living room), though he will help out if we are both around or I ask. We don't really have a schedule. I or we get to it every week or two. The boys each clean their own rooms on Saturdays and they each clean a bathroom every other week. I do all the hot tub maintenance and all school/sports/piano communication stuff. I deal with things like b-day gifts, school supplies, etc. Any organization stuff falls to me, because like I said, I do not think my husband even sees it. He also tends to argue "none of that stuff is mine". (He thinks I keep too much stuff/ allow the boys to have/ keep too much stuff... so he feels he shouldn't really have to organize other people's crap. Kind of fair, but he can also be unrealistic sometimes- I mean, it's normal to have a good amount of stuff when you have young boys...But he will often argue that some things I insist on keeping for "future reference/use" are unnecessary. He would likely be a lot more rash about tossing older games, toys, sentimental stuff, etc. than I am...).
it's great that your husband sees you as equal, I don't take it lightly and I fully agree that we should be firm on our bottom lines. I kind of did something similar, I wrote down all households tasks one day (excluding those that the helper does like cleaning, cooking, laundry), and ask my husband to choose about half. Although i still do more at least he's aware of what entails to run a household. now he does groceries, drive kids to activities, fix/handle the car. :) I know that sometimes we just do things to avoid conflict, but when we really want something to change/happen, we need to be firm.
I think it sounds like a great division of labour and I really love hearing about how other couples split things and run households.
I'm quite like you, I see the sense of outsourcing jobs. I'm very grateful to have a cleaner.
Hubby does most of our food shopping because I am so bad at it. I tend to buy on impulse, without making a proper meal plan or shopping list. I recently bought around 8 packs of different multipack yoghurts... that was the final straw and I found myself fired from food shopping... LOL!
This is FASCINATING and I love the equality in your marriage. But that's why you married Phil - you wanted a partner who was also interested in equal partnership. I love that you value time while Phil values frugality, and you've been able to figure out how to make those things work. I don't think it sounds cutthroat at all to request Phil does the grocery shopping/cleaning because, like you said, you're fine outsourcing it. If he's not, then he gets to do the tasks! I think it's important to have these open conversations, otherwise it just breeds resentment.
It’s so amusing to me all the similarities. My husband does all the shopping because he enjoys it. I’ve suggested buying them online before, and he complains about the idea. We also have a shared notes document on our phone for our grocery list too.
This is super-interesting and I don't think you have to "explain" or "justify" how you guys divide chores. I think the most important thing is a) communication and b) that you're both happy with the outcome. If you value time and Phil values frugality, then he gets to shop/clean, if he isn't on board with outsourcing it. I think that's just fair.
One thing that obviously plays to your advantage is that you have the means to outsource. I am sure couples with less financial "wiggle room" have to come up with different arrangements, but again that is something that each couple has to figure out by communicating well!
In our discussions over cleaners vs time vs money it ended up with me quitting and staying home. But I feel like we all won out on that. It's honestly been so freaking nice to not have to be running around so crazy and have me full time figuring out crap that would take up all our weekends and now we can just chill together. I run our house/errands m-f like a job and after dinner time m-f and all weekend we can just be a family together. That has made such a pleasant living situation for all of us! I know I will eventually go back to work but I cannot fathom working full time ever again! The work / life balance is just too nice.
so interesting to read how you - and now others, in the comments - divvy up the jobs. It seems like each family finds what works for their unique circumstances, and you can't really take someone else's approach and make it work for you. Maybe in rare circumstances, but I'd bet it's unlikely. Glad your system works for you - for now! (You also have showed a lot of flexibility over time, which is also interesting!)
Post a Comment